A conversation
that keeps developing.

Speaker 1: That's why when we talk about SEND we're talking about everyone aren't we? And I think that's the thing when we separate these titles, it's actually just our human-ness at play, just in different forms, and recognizing that actually our children who see the world differently or respond to the world differently actually probably need and do need the exact same things we've just been talking about in terms of risk, resilience, being supported in it. Sometimes you need to go a little closer, and sometimes you can go a bit wider. But actually that's what all of our children need regardless of what the title, the label, or whatever it is that's there. So we've got to get more confidence in ourselves as educators of children that are different, so that we can allow them to be confident in their difference. And I think that's really key in terms of the risk and resilience piece for them.

Speaker 1: Sometimes with our children who have got very complex support needs, who might communicate in very special ways, and very subtle ways, it is so, so important, and it can take much longer again to sort of to know when a child is feeling happy, and when a child is feeling comfortable, and when a child is feeling safe. And it can only come from obviously speaking to really important people and sharing experiences with families and communicating well, but ultimately just spending lots of time together and sharing connection. Speaker 2: Connection. Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that type of leadership and approach to inclusion takes a lot of bravery. Because you've act- you've actually have to put down the status quo for a while in order to allow that time, don't you? And we know the pressures in education, we know the outcome pressures, we know all of these things. But that bravery to say that we know that this is a really important factor that our children need, is actually really, really key. And sometimes, you know, I seem to, I understand it fully, leaders are reluctant to give that time, that space, to create the relationships, to get to know, to adapt environments, because it actually chips away from real learning. And actually what we need to be thinking about is actually, does this have such a place especially in our school systems now, that we have to start to create opportunities for it. We have to start saying that this is the, one of the core pillars of education, not an additional pillar of education.